Friday, April 11, 2014

the struggle just passed real: charles murray now whining about guaranteed income...,

NPR | Paul Solman: What’s the case for a minimum income?

Charles Murray: From a libertarian’s point of view, we’re going to be spending a lot of money on income transfers, no matter what.

Paul Solman: Why?

Charles Murray: The society is too rich to stand aside and say, “We aren’t going to do anything for people in need.” I understand that; I accept that; I sympathize with it.

What I want is a grand compromise between the left and the right. We on the right say, “We will give you huge government, in terms of the amount of money we spend. You give us small government, in terms of the ability of government to mess around with people’s lives.”

So you have a system whereby every month, a check goes into an electronic bank account for everybody over the age of 21, which they can use as they see fit. They can get together with other people and then combine their resources. But they live their own lives. We put their lives back in their hands.

Paul Solman: So this has similarities with the voucher movement; that is, give the money to people because they will know better how to spend it.

Charles Murray: In that sense, it’s similar to a voucher program, but my real goal with all of this is to revive civil society. Here’s what I mean by that: You have a guy who gets a check every month, alright. He is dissolute; he drinks it up and he’s got 10 days to go before the next check comes in and he’s destitute. He now has to go to friends, relatives, neighbors or the Salvation Army, and say, “I really need to survive.” He will get help.

But under a guaranteed basic income, he can no longer portray himself as a victim who’s helpless to do anything about it. And you’ve got to set up feedback loops where people say, “Okay, we’re not going to let you starve on the streets, but it’s time for you to get your act together. And don’t tell us that you can’t do it because we know you’ve got another check coming in in a couple of days.”

A guaranteed basic income has the potential for making civic organizations, families and neighborhoods much more vital, helpful and responsive than they have been in decades.

Paul Solman: And that’s because it shifts the blame? Because it doesn’t give people an excuse?

Charles Murray: Yeah. It doesn’t give people the excuse of being helpless. Right now, people can say, “What am I going to do? There’s no job out there. There’s this or that.” If you’re getting a check every month, you are not without resources, and that opens up a whole new dialogue between you and the other people around you.

America’s always been very good at providing help to people in need. It hasn’t been perfect, but they’ve been very good at it. Those relationships have been undercut in recent years by a welfare state that has, in my view, denuded the civic culture.

And a basic guaranteed income has the potential for making a big, positive difference in American life.


umbrarchist said...

Why not guaranteed land. How much do people spend on housing? People can't live in National Parks because the government confiscated the land. And then our schools did not teach people to build and maintain houses. Shakespeare was more important.

Vic78 said...

Charles Murray's supposed to be smart? A $12,000 stipend isn't going to help anyone except a college student and in a country of 300+ million would kill the budget. We've seen all the fighting over small tax increases, all this talk about the debt, and healthcare; so anyone proposing a government check for everybody is too stupid to take seriously. I guess he's supposed to have credibility due to his scholarship and integrity. How is this supposed to work? You give everyone a check and cut most of the things the government does?

Damn, that interview was stupid. Getting married is the answer to all of our problems. Hell, if you're getting 12,000 a year, you could get your 12,000 and combine your spouse's 12,000. With that 24,000 you two can make a life together. Why do we have to listen to this dumbass?

BigDonOne said...

In the meantime, some new program to prevent those useless-breathing eee-bee-tee-swiperz from breeding more of their heavily-dependent selvez, would definitely be a much-needed improvement.....

CNu said...

The guy making this proposal is the same guy that came up with ways to throw us overboard.

Big Don's bible see it up there on his top book shelf - is about to get utterly repudiated by the scope and depth of cultural degeneracy being broadly exhibited in the mainstream. This nationwide system of prison-cultural supremacy is about permanently and irrevocably consign Murray and Hernstein to the racist lunatic fringe dustbin - FOR ALL TIME!!!!

CNu said...

Vic78 said...

"This nationwide system of prison-cultural supremacy is about permanently and irrevocably consign Murray and Hernstein to the racist lunatic fringe dustbin - FOR ALL TIME!!!!"

So, should we invest in popcorn?

CNu said...

Bingo!!! I'll bring the ice cold khemetic beverages....,

CNu said...

For real though, could you have ever featured in a million years that a dyed-in-the-wool Turner Diaries fanboy like Murray would throw in the towel so quickly? It's only been six years since folks began to acknowledge that it's hitting the fan. Shit must be getting so real out there in the great unwashed mainstream that heaven forbid it be allowed to run the multi-generational course it's run among the canaries up in this coal mine.

BigDonOne said...

FWIW, Murray is off-base. The system has gotten way too soft. BD is against government giving anybody any free money for survival, let alone a lower-middle-class lazy do-nothing existence. That's how it was in the 1950's and before, when the system worked. The truly deserving who had bad luck were helped by private charities. If you couldn't afford the then-reasonably-priced health care, tough luck. The lazy starved, responsible neighbors cared for neglected kids. Ooowbreeederz were ostracized.

Crime did *NOT* pay, there was little plea bargaining. None of this Miranda, free-attorney, incarceration phones, and conjugal visit nonsense. Murderers were executed, often within the year. Burglars, robbers, car thieves, went to Alcatraz, et. al. People knew to keep their noses clean.....

Constructive_Feedback said...

Even the great Milton Friedman supported the "Earned Income Tax Credit".

When THEORY is hit by the reality of HUMAN NATURE - it is reasonable for the ESTABLISHMENT POWER to avoid riotous situations by yielding some.

I too support the ETF.

The problem is that you all are looking at this from PUBLIC POLICY.

A "People" in a society need to have some measure of "CULTURAL DIGNITY" by which they shun "handouts" and focus upon COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE for their people - as they stand in a sea of "Other People" (the competition).

IF Charles Murray is a "Racist" because of the "Bell Curve" - WHO DO YOU KNOW that his goal of "Hand outs" is NOT to steal the FORAGING ability of the people so that they are not compelled to DISCONNECT FROM THE SYSTEM as they circle the wagons and DO FOR SELF.

This being done in a domain that is separate from the POLITICAL DOMAIN or the "Nation-state Nationalism" such as "Black Nationalism", "European Nationalism" or "La Raza"

CNu said...

What is an ETF?

Who is "you all" looking at this from public policy? Personally, I'm looking at it from the perspective of "not gonna happen" and funny as hell that Murray (of all people) would have reached such a nadir in the prosecution of his white nationalist programme that he now finds himself begging for a universal handout to keep western civilization from crumbling. As for Murray being racist, i.e., harboring and acting on anti-black animus, that's not even close to controversial. Charles Murray was one of the architects of the anti-black counterinsurgency in the U.S. - whose teeth we all feel so bitingly in the form of the prison culture which has permeated and distorted poor and popular culture everywhere.

Constructive_Feedback said...

"Racist" was being sarcastic.

Exchange Traded Funds - but I meant to say EITC

I assure you, bro, that there is some Negro talking right now saying:

"10 years ago when Bush stole the election we said 'ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN' when it came to the thought of having A BLACK PRESIDENT to bring us out of our depression of 8 years of Bush and a previous 12 of Reagan and Bush.

Vic78 said...

I never saw Murray going out the way he is. I figured he was going to be a soldier about it. Disappointed that he and some of his buddies are pussing out like they are. Murray's to the left of Chomsky with this shit. He could've at least came up with a more practical idea. Giving everyone a thousand dollar monthly stipend?

Popcorn, drinks, I think we need some music as well.

CNu said...

lol, that is indeed a snapshot of his bookshelf that he PROUDLY sent me a few years ago.

CNu said...

Murray's to the left of Chomsky with this shit.

lol, and NPR called this sad old mollusk a "libertarian economist". Bruv is seriously worried about the viral proliferation of prison-industrial radiation out into the cultural meatus of HIS tribes and is reaching for anything to stave off the dystopian collective destination he's glimpsed around that signpost up ahead.

CNu said...

Why not guaranteed release of all non-violent drug offenders, legalization of all offending organic and non-addictive substances, and grandfathering back pardons on those whose lives were smashed up into the hopelessly barbarizing grist of the penal mill? Why not defund the military industrial boondoggle and put those unsustainably pricey goons and buffoons to work in the cranberry bogs? There are countless practical approaches to skinning this cat, there are NO feasible political approaches for doing so, short of a major and catastrophic bloodletting.

Vic78 said...

It wouldn't be right for Murray to go down by himself. The people that benefited from supporting him should join him.

Tom said...

What the hell is he talking about? People won't be waiting for a check, they'll be waiting for a check. That'll change everything.

Very few people get less crazy as they get older, and he isn't one of them. He's crazier than a bedbug. He's crazier than the Bell Curve.

umbrarchist said...

Are you advocating some kind of intelligently run society delusion. You need to be locked up. LOL