Monday, July 28, 2014

the government rulebook for labelling you a "terrorist"

firstlook |  The Obama administration has quietly approved a substantial expansion of the terrorist watchlist system, authorizing a secret process that requires neither “concrete facts” nor “irrefutable evidence” to designate an American or foreigner as a terrorist, according to a key government document obtained by The Intercept.

The “March 2013 Watchlisting Guidance,” a 166-page document issued last year by the National Counterterrorism Center, spells out the government’s secret rules for putting individuals on its main terrorist database, as well as the no fly list and the selectee list, which triggers enhanced screening at airports and border crossings. The new guidelines allow individuals to be designated as representatives of terror organizations without any evidence they are actually connected to such organizations, and it gives a single White House official the unilateral authority to place entire “categories” of people the government is tracking onto the no fly and selectee lists. It broadens the authority of government officials to “nominate” people to the watchlists based on what is vaguely described as “fragmentary information.” It also allows for dead people to be watchlisted.

Over the years, the Obama and Bush Administrations have fiercely resisted disclosing the criteria for placing names on the databases—though the guidelines are officially labeled as unclassified. In May, Attorney General Eric Holder even invoked the state secrets privilege to prevent watchlisting guidelines from being disclosed in litigation launched by an American who was on the no fly list. In an affidavit, Holder called them a “clear roadmap” to the government’s terrorist-tracking apparatus, adding: “The Watchlisting Guidance, although unclassified, contains national security information that, if disclosed … could cause significant harm to national security.”


Constructive_Feedback said...

Naive Tom:

My dear friend Vic98 and I have no real beef EXCEPT that he can't fully acknowledge the pitfalls of the "Vote For Salvation" scheme that ties the "Americanized Blacks' " living standards to AMERICAN POLITICAL OPPORTUNISM.

Despite the fact that DuBois, Kwame Ture', Marcus Garvey and even Booker T Washington warned of the pitfalls of latching one's wagon to "The American Political Engine" (with at least some of these greatest calling for a more 'Global Diasporatic' view in order to develop a PURPOSE and avoid the myopic "Windmill Chasing" that we are presently engaged in.

While Vic98 is pleased to have more Americans exposed to "Medicaid" (the poverty threshold reaching further up into the income strata)..............I HAVE THE AUDACITY to ask Vic and others: "After 50 years of Black Development through POLITICAL OPPORTUNISM - don't you think that we should EXPECT more COMPETENCIES to address these fundamental needs within the community and/or the cities that this POLITICAL MOVEMENT now controls as PROOF that this movement is ALIGNED WITH "HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT" rather than rank CONSUMERISM and HARVESTING OF THE PEOPLE'S VALUABLES?

At this point where I get down to this "BONE" - I start receiving "ENGLISH LESSONS" about my writing style and volume - instead of a refutation of this as a reasonable expectation from people who have DEVELOPMENT of "The Least Of These" as their goal rather than a "MORE FRUITFUL FEEDING SCHEDULE".


CNu said...

CNu: At times I wonder if you and others find it easier to deal with
Black males - "pants dragging", who can't engage into a substantive
debate of matters at handlol, you confusing quantity with quality...,Indeed - Mr Catholic...the greatest testament of any RELIGION is its competency in displaying
its VISION OF GOD to its congregants, noting the message of DEVELOPMENT
and DISCIPLINE and FRUITFULNESS and JUSTICE that each of them are based
uponWhy I spend 45 minutes a week at Mass - because Jesuits present my son with a world-class education geared to the vicissitudes of adolescent male mentality, period. Oh, and should he elect to matriculate at a Jesuit college or university, a 10% tuition discount will also be available.IF CNu was really interested in "Religious Scrutiny"CNu has already articulated a Malthusian notion of God's Work

Vic78 said...


he can't fully acknowledge the pitfalls of the "Vote For Salvation" scheme that ties the "Americanized Blacks' " living standards to AMERICAN POLITICAL OPPORTUNISM.

You're projecting a bullshit mindset onto me that doesn't exist.

Vic78 said...

Look who just recently changed their minds.

ken said...

I know Tom, I suppose we could smirk at another source who is just as delusional... here's another denier of the evidence:

One of the problems with fossil evidence is the general lack of gradually sequenced intermediary forms. There are some fossil lineages that appear quite well-represented, such as from therapsid reptiles to the mammals, and between what is considered land-living ancestors of the whales and their ocean-living descendants. The transition from an ancestral horse (Eohippus) and the modern horse (Equus) is also significant, and Archaeopteryx has been postulated as fitting the gap between reptiles and birds. But generally, paleontologists do not find a steady change from ancestral forms to descendant forms, but rather discontinuities, or gaps in most every phyletic series. This has been explained both by the incompleteness of the fossil record and by proposals of speciation that involve short periods of time, rather than millions of years. (Notably, there are also gaps between living organisms, with a lack of intermediaries between whales and terrestrial mammals, between reptiles and birds, and between flowering plants and their closest relatives.) Archaeopteryx has recently come under criticism as a transitional fossil between reptiles and birds (Wells 2000).

The fact that the fossil evidence supports the view that species tend to remain stable throughout their existence and that new species appear suddenly is not problematic for the theory of descent with modification, but only with Darwin's concept of gradualism.....

Textbook authors have often confused the dialogue on evolution by treating the term as if it signified one unified whole—not only descent with modification, but also the specific Darwinian and neo-Darwinian theories regarding natural selection, gradualism, speciation, and so forth. Certain textbook authors, in particular, have exacerbated this terminological confusion by lumping "evidences of evolution" into a section placed immediately after a comprehensive presentation on Darwin's overall theory—thereby creating the misleading impression that the evidences are supporting all components of Darwin's theory, including natural selection (Swarts et al. 1994). In reality, the confirming information is invariably limited to the phenomenon of evolution having occurred (descent from a common ancestor or change of gene frequencies in populations), or perhaps including evidence of natural selection within populations.

CNu said...

lol@kosplay kufi-Kofi,

Don't forget my Malthusian/Trevelyanian disdain for the wattles, the Cathedral, preachers/lawyers/politicians/public-intellectuals, ni nis, dysgenic breeders, and every other proudly useless aspirant to a publicly underwritten sponge bath on the deck of the Titanic.

Constructive_Feedback said...

[quote]Instead of worrying about me, you should start your own indoor project to get in front of the coming changes.[/quote]

The difference between being perceived as a "jerkoff" versus one who sees some troubling misalignments in another's M.O. and comments upon them is a matter of THAT OTHER PERSON'S inclination to GET DEFENSIVE so he can continue unchallenged OR his willingness to take a step back and recalculate the steps necessary to obtain better results.

Therefore, sir, I am wondering why you suggest that I "COMMIT TO (COMING) CHANGES" as evidence of MY commitment to a solution -BUT - the very same people in Georgia that you wish to get registered to vote in order to "Work The System" - I did not see you TELLING THEM to "GET IN FRONT OF COMING CHANGES" or "Don't GET GOT Again", as they have been over the past 50 years .......start to tend to their COMMUNITY NEEDS at a more local level as the most time-tested means of mitigating such challenges.

Is it your opinion that I am more competent to hold these responsibilities on my shoulders than THEY?
WHO failed to develop them into LOAD BEARING "Equal Human Beings" after they claimed "leadership" over them then?

Vic78 said...

Have you wondered why you're the only one that seems to see inconsistency with my postings? It's a pretty sharp bunch at thus site but you're the only one stuck on an example of something I noticed weeks ago. The example I posted was proof of selfishness and questionable competence on the part of the person named. But you go on with your VOTING FOR SALVATION thing. Have you ever studied logic? With me you're beating the shit out of the strawman.

Naive Tom said...

I guess I have to add (d) Straw Man to your list of cognitive problems.

I said Darwin's theory predicted transitional forms, and that we subsequently found mountains of transitional forms. You lied and said no, there aren't any. I pointed out that you lied. You responded with an article that acknowledges we found mountains of transitional forms, evidence consistent with Darwin's theory.

However, the article goes on to present a puzzle, which is that in some lineages we have a lot of transitional forms and in other lineages we don't. You immediately dredge up and flaunt your trademark Cognitive Gap (C) every time two biologists propose different theories, evolution has been disproved.
You throw this out as if you hadn't just been called on it in the same thread.

Where is your basic human respect for the reader? What reader here is stupid enough to fall for this incredible jambalaya of logical fallacies even once, let alone fall into them again right after they've been pointed out?

I have a theory of evil, Ken. Evil people hate the truth as much as good people hate lies. A evil person gets caught with his hand in the cash register and knows he's innocent. In fact the coworker who caught him is at fault.

Uncle Tom said...


Ok. Yes, I was speaking ironically when I said you plan to rise up and destroy the white man. I don't believe that far-fetched idea.

I do believe you dislike most white people. Maybe with good and sufficient reason, but nevertheless there it is. You have the right to do your thing, and I caved and joined in with "Zap Maheru Week." Sambo is on the table; I see flaws in your practice as well.

CNu's multiple recurring genocidal riffs have not escaped my attention. I take them ironically, but who the hell knows?

Tom said...

One example of useless practice from people who talk about Africa all the time: "antiracism."

From my perspective, after massive amounts of engagement and volunteer work, the current "antiracism" ideas are full of doctrinaire fables, and also ultimately a way of telling white people to get lost.

Did Frederick Douglass tell John Brown to get lost? Well, at times you had to, Brown was nuts, but -- big picture -- no. Those are men who accomplished something. The New Segregation does not seem to accomplish much -- except getting us away from you while you talk about the problems of society. Ok, fine, so go and prosper.

Vic78 said...

The point of apologetics is to defend the system at all costs. There is no happiness or positivity outside of the system. Everything done in defense of the system is right. Anything or anyone that leads to a questioning of the system is evil and out to destroy the system. People outside of the system are to keep their heads down around the 'saved.'

Nothing that I see from bible buddies surprises me. They're doing their job. What would happen if they discovered they bought into bullshit? They'd fall apart and they can't have that.

Naive Tom said...

When I open this particular Red Phone to Creationist Headquarters I never ever get any message back. Total silence.

That says to me that "scientific creationists" aren't really even interested in the questions they're raising.

makheru bradley said...

"I do believe you dislike most white people." If you choose to operate in the world of extrapolation, that's your prerogative. "I see flaws in your practice as well." Either you have eyes, but can't see, or you are part of the all seeing eye.

makheru bradley said...

For such a badass, why are you afraid to post your own holocaustic quote?

Naive Tom said...

" If you choose to operate in the world of extrapolation, that's your prerogative."

This is the answer you choose to give?

Naive Tom said...

Yeah. I dunno about apologetics. I'm like reading the Wiki on it now.

So but that's probably why I never get any response when I toss out the idea that "random" means nothing more than "something we don't know yet." A sharp believer who cared about science would laugh his/her ass off and say "As far as you know, that's God." And off the top of my head I'd have nothing to say. Maybe it is God. We have this blank wall in optics where our best data and theory indicate we can not predict certain things, ever. It's a looming blank wall where science completely stops. Interesting?

No. The "intelligent design scientists" just glare sullenly at what I'm saying, like a bass that's suspicious of a worm. Because -- right! -- to the apologist, tricks are the entire substance of what's going on. It can't be a real worm. That possibility isn't even loaded into the Matrix.

I like being Naive Tom overall, but it's a damn trial sometimes, lemme tell you.

Here's a chart!

CNu said...

kosplay kufi-Kofi, my man....,

I'm at the same corner every day of the week, 24/7/365, keeping it moving, but then you already know that fact, because like a dope-fiend, you steadily coming back. On the other hand, you won't find me seeking you or any other representative of the "movement" out, because I have no interest in kwanzaa or any other just-so stories you're now down to force-feeding little children who have no say in the matter. It's not my fault - and it's not my problem that your movement is dying and that you're not interesting.

That said, we've reached decision-time Bro.Makheru.

Either decide to stop acting out with folks who bring something more than personal frustration to the discussion, or, decide to climb on board my one-way train to permanent digital pinata status. Choice is all yours...,


Naive Tom said...

lol the cognitive dissonance is killing me. we're two corporate guys talking past each other on purpose.

CNu said...

To understand a thing is to know whether or not to waste your breath in futile conversation with it. Knowing that "believers" have aligned themselves with a group in which a premium is placed on belief and conversion to belief, knowing that all politics and all polities are expressions of the status-seeking instinct - you were hoping and "praying" that knowledge and the pursuit of truth would somehow unseat their respective, life-long pursuit of status within their group?

Naive Tom said...

It's your show, but my problem was with WinterSplinter. Two old middle managers like Makheru and I can have an unfriendly chat without the world ending.

Tom said...

In a word, yes. Call me freaking Diogenes.

On the other hand ...

CNu said...

For the past few months, kosplay kufi-Kofi has been commenting with such vitriol that his comments get stuck in an automatic disqus moderation cue. That simple keyword blacklist was put together to keep two clowns with serious personal animus from running rampant when I close my eyes at night.

Ironically, he and BD are the only other folks whose emanations routinely veer off into comment spam filter territory. When I check the moderation cue, if he's written anything worth reading, I immediately approve it. If not, and what's sitting there is nothing more than personal vitriol and outgassing, I delete it.

I find it amusing that the two old "race" men who pretend to occupy opposing corners of the long-house, somehow think and express themselves so much alike that the simple little filter in disqus treats what comes out of them as spam...,

CNu said...

This poor soul wasted a dissertation on the wattles

Naive Tom said...

Yeah, you know though, as long as I'm venting in all directions, Cobb's world-weary god-it's-so-hard-to-be-right-all-the-time schtick isn't my thing either.

Naive Tom said...

Oh, I see, Unclesmrgol. Yeah, he probably could have saved his time too. And interestingly his position is officially "opposite" mine.

So Olga is an atheist who insists (1) there is no God, and also that (2) she does not insist there is no God. We should get her and Ken together.

Naive Tom said...

Oh, and Unclesmrgol in return plays the "scripture proves it" card, like a drunken Sunday School teacher.

Saints preserve us.

Vic78 said...

Conservatives are funny when they try to explain your beliefs to you. It's a headache when you engage them anywhere outside of their specialty.

CNu said...

lol, is that what that is?

I have some basic rules for living:
1. Your value in life equals what you know and what you can do
2. NEVER let it be important to you to be important to somebody else
3. Always be working on your own thing(s)

I believe that brougham is a serial violator of rule number 2., in consequence of which he's picked up a number of conspicuous affectations - one of which you've noted. That said, he's compiled a yeoman's body of work addressing a range of topics I haven't seen anybody else touch.

CNu said...

Stripped of all its byzantine trappings, to me, conservatism reduces to accepting, rationalizing, and proselytizing being son'd.

If you got son'd and came to terms with it, it must've been good medicine and surely others will want the same thing for themselves too? My fundamental issue with all of that is that the prospect of being son'd summons one thing and one thing only to mind

CNu said...

lol, it's soooo saaaaWEET when all the trappings get dropped and there the emperor stands - nekkid as a jaybird...,

Constructive_Feedback said...

My Dear Friend Vic78:

I am a "Cultural Conservative".

Instead of attempting to EXPLAIN to you what YOU is far more instructive to listen to what THE CONGREGATION IS MADE TO BELIEVE and then INSPECT THEM and their condition of DEVELOPMENT after several decades of investing their valuables into the offering plate.

* THEY BELIEVE in "Social Justice" - but still can't manage to stem that pesky problem of "Stop Snitching Enforcement" - because eye witnesses value their own lives so they don't want to be seen talking to the police to help find the killer

* THEY BELIEVE that "Education Is The Great Equalizer" YET when you investigate to see if this goes beyond a PROTEST SIGN and is transformed into an series of TASKS OF EDUCATION of the children in their own community - it becomes clear that "EDUCATION IS A FIGHT" against the adversary

* (From the Bev Smith Radio Show last night) THEY BELIEVE that POLITICAL CONTROL over the city is going to bring forth "Promised Land" conditions. Yet BECAUSE the over-arching CONSPIRACY AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE is the "Trump Card" - even when the city is entirely mission accomplished - the PEOPLE THEY VOTED FOR YET FAILED THEM never seem to have "Seen It Coming" as THE ENEMY plotted to take the land back.

* They BELIEVE in SELF DETERMINATION - but upon closer inspection this is merely a "Call To Arms" that is used to promote strength where there is INFERIORITY

(WHY BE "SUCCINCT" in writing when THE TRUTH requires COMPREHENSIVENESS in order to prevent the Operative from finding a crack to elude the converging walls)

Constructive_Feedback said...


I forgot about that one.

YOU FORGOT about the Boondocks representation of this video.

CNu said...

My Dear Friend Vic78: = Looka heah.., I likes ya and I wants ya, now we can do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way

CNu said...

Oh lawd...., why am I now imagining that "molestation of the community consciousness nucleus" has just acquired a whole new face?

Naive Tom said...

That is similar to Alice Miller's analysis of a certain child abuse scenario. People have probably seen this ...

Constructive_Feedback said...

[quote] Darwin's theory has been connected with the concept of genetic mutations (a post-Darwin idea) but is in no way dependent upon it.[/quote]

AGAIN - There has NOT BEEN A SINGLE point of evidence proving INTER-SPECIES MUTATION.

The evidence of a similar phenotype of animals mating and the offspring adopting the color, size, shape or behaviors of one or a fusion of the two parents is NOT evidence of INTER-SPECIES MUTATION.

You are NEVER going to find the animal that represents the division of the mammalian order between dogs, cats, monkeys and humans BECAUSE IT NEVER EXISTED!!!

Constructive_Feedback said...

Naive Tom:

You are doing the very same thing that Neil De Grasse Tyson does with his "Jesus Magic" - CONFLATE your expert knowledge of COSMOLOGY and MINERAL SCIENCE over toward the matter of LIFE SCIENCES.

IT DOESN'T MATTER if the Earth used to spin around the sun in an orbit that is a 90 degree shift from what we can observe today - THIS DOES NOT SPEAK TO HOW CARBON, HYDROGEN, OXYGEN, NITROGEN, SODIUM, ZINC, MAGNESIUM AND CALCIUM all decided to form COMPLEX COMPOUNDS and then later PROTEINS which then formed single cell creatures and later COMPLEX SYSTEMS which - IN AGGREGATE became an ANIMAL - which GOT INTELLIGENCE about the world around him through his 5 senses - THAT ARE NOW PERFECTLY TUNED to energy pulses that we have in this ecosystem. (ie: to enable sight).

Why don't you just go get a lump of SAND and place it on your kitchen table and wait for it to transform into a silicon wafer and later a microprocessor - so you can promise your loved one that in 2 billion years - it will turn into an XBOX - and thus you are not going to give Best Buy or Amazon another penny of your discretionary budget for electronics?

Constructive_Feedback said...


Are you surprised when Michael Eric Dyson - a (supposed) Man Of The Cloth applies HIS "biblical training" for POLITICAL OPPORTUNISM and ends up fighting more against his fellow Christians who are "rightwing" than he does with Secular Progressive Atheists or Muslims, neither of whom believe in the "God" that he proclaims as his "savior"?

One has to have a certain points of EXPECTATIONS and ANTICIPATIONS in order to be SURPRISED when the person in question manifests something that is a radical departure.

CNu said...

Wrong Feed!!! Among chordates, our entire phylogenetic history is put on display during embryogenesis, or don't you remember having gills and breathing fluid?

Constructive_Feedback said...

[quote]the Big Bang and evolution are both falsifiable. Someone can come up with a better theory tomorrow[/quote]

And that's the problem.
Per their will to subtract REASON from their ideological adversary (who they believe to be "Lemmings To Jesus") those who have their wagon attached to a POPULARLY ACCEPTED THEORY under the label of "Science" - can now argue against the "Intelligent Designers" using the notion of "Falsifibility" - while being open to the implicit admission that "YES I MIGHT BE WRONG IN WHERE I STAND, BUT I WILL REMAIN 'WRONG' UNTIL YOU CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE"

The hamster whose merriment of being provided with a "wheel", a "meal" and a "poop and piss removal service" - via a MAGIC HAND that comes out of the sky to "service him" that he has not formed a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH could be AS PACIFIED about his CORRECTNESS as you.

Just because HE DOESN'T BELIEVE that there exists a larger world outside of his "converted fish tank" and asks his "hamster buddy" to PROVE that this "hand" belongs to a larger world beyond their own understanding - does not explain the origins of their little ecosystem inside of the fish tank. It ONLY affords "hamster #1" a grounds for repudiation until HE is satisfied.

JUSTICE would be for this "benevolent hand" to triple their food rations but refuse to remove the "poop and piss" until they accept that THIS IS THE "HAND OF GOD" and that they are merely "Water and Nutrition Transformation Devices" (into feces)

Vic78 said...

His biblical training is what he uses to get his foot in the door due to Americans' religiosity. Is he really fighting the right wing? What kind of strategy has he laid out for neutralizing Republicans? Has he put together an interest group worth talking about? Has he ever laid out a way to get the Democratic Party in line? He's not fighting shit. The only thing he's helping is his bank account and he gets to keep his status as a public intellectual.

Tom said...


With all due respect, you are micturating zephyrward with that relatively recent stuff. You might dig in and hold out forever in the Cambrian, but ...

"between dogs, cats, "

People used to class this animal as a dog. More recently the majority declare it a relative of the cats:
Although phylogenetically close to felines and viverrids, hyenas are behaviourally and morphologically similar to canines in several aspects; both hyenas and canines are nonarboreal, cursorial hunters that catch prey with their teeth rather than claws. Both eat food quickly and may store it, and their calloused feet with large, blunt, nonretractable nails are adapted for running and making sharp turns. However, the hyenas' grooming, scent marking, defecating habits, mating, and parental behaviour are consistent with the behaviour of other feliforms.[4]

Other fun facts you could have found by googling for 15 minutes:
Extinct beardog

Extant animal resembling a cat but not a cat

Whales, dogs, and grazing animals

Vic78 said...

When were valuables invested? It was a small percentage of Black folks that put in the work against Jim Crow. A vote is not an investment. The people that organized the votes made the investment of their time and they were rewarded. The people that just vote, not so much.

At what point in history have Black folks had political control of a city? The guy they like might win an election but if they aren't held to account, being in office doesn't mean anything. You have to work to obtain power. As of right now, Black people in general have put in little to no work.

CNu said...

Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny

Vic78 said...

You're using the teleological argument.

CNu said...

Ooooooh....., you just now sank his whole and entire battleship!

Naive Tom said...

I'm assured by an evil genetic engineer that nobody knows how life began. That's an even better era than the Cambrian for shooting down scientific theories.

You're certainly right, I'm an applied physics guy not a biologist.

I'm working on a blog post explaining what I actually think about what you might call "Tyson Jesus Magic" pushing outside of science's proper sphere, into our belief systems. And laying waste to them.

I'm not holding my breath, though, that there will be an interesting discussion over there. Most people either want to wind back the clock to AD 1600 or crank it forward to the Sci Fi Channel.

Naive Tom said...

I basically like the comment though, thumbs up.

Constructive_Feedback said...

I yield.
Maybe when these 'embroys' that were destined for HIGHER ORDER beings if left unmolested in the womb - were instead aborted and thrown into a liquid filled jar and they leveraged their gills. Thus we have chordates.

My bad.

Naive Tom said...

CF / all

If anybody is not yet completely nauseated by this thread, I put up a post about "randomness" vs "ignorance" and a silly collision between science and theology that seems to occur when we play fast and loose with those two terms.

Constructive_Feedback said...

[quote]Is he really fighting the right wing? What kind of strategy has he laid out for neutralizing Republicans? [/quote]

Michael Eric Dyson was HIRED by MSNBC to DISARM THE AMERICANIZED NEGRO from the propensity to "protect his own valuables" as Dyson 'Keeps The Enemy On Trial' by showcasing White Right-Wing OFFENSIVE words and policy actions - thus triggering a DEFENSIVE reaction by the "Americanized Negro".

With the Progressive offering "cover" - he operates as the "Corrupt African Tribal Leaders" who greased the skids for the COLONIZERS.

Vic78 said...

I'd rather deal with it like the guy from American Me.