Saturday, December 15, 2012

the mark



Laziness is a very deep powerful thing. Once you really understand why a thing is wrong and still do it, you in a real sense sin—that is, you miss the mark. That is why we call the struggle against intrinsic laziness, mechanicalness, and inattention - Work.

7 comments:

ken said...

"lol, read Nicoll's The Mark and answer that question for
yourself. The vastly more important question for you is why do you suppose
Gurdjieff and Ouspensky went to such great lengths to distance their
terminology from what you refer to as "Christianity"?

Do you mean besides they think believing there is a God is
foolishness? I guess that would be the short answer, they simply don't accept
it. They have a problem in that the wisdom of the Bible is attractive, and life
changing and true.

The other reason of course is to nurse along our weak essence
our inner god since there is no other god, we can only look internal.

Using the same Christian terms would make our personalities and
our previous knowledge war with our weak essence if we kept the same
terminology. I might rely on what the Spirit taught me about truth rather than
the new essence building of my inner god. It also creates dependence and power
for my teachers to have to come to those who have proclaimed to acquire level 4
consciousness.

It creates a total insecurity that you have the ability to read
or think or interpret anything yourself and believe you understand what it means. Any reminder of a time when you could receive
inner revelation from the Spirit wouldn't be helpful to the inner god you are
allowing to develop. Your very personality and anything you have learned is
stopping you from a higher consciousness. Certainly, reminders of a Creator,
and a God accepting you and revealing truths to you directly handicaps the
inner god from sprouting to take hold of its kingdom. As a side not I was
surprised the kingdom of god phrase was allowed, maybe something like coming in
unity to essence would further keep the reminders away from us.

So far have these people moved away from what the Bible while
they tell us they are the only ones who can interpret it for us.


" I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on
their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people. ​​​ And there will
be no need at all for each one to teach his countryman or each one to teach his
brother
saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ since they will all know me, from the least to the
greatest. ​​​​For I will be merciful
toward their evil deeds, and their sins I will remember no longer.”

The notice above from the Bible, kills the power of the one who
says he has the hidden meaning of the words.

CNu said...

Do you mean besides they think believing there is a God is foolishness?

You weren't aware of Gurdjieff's education in an Orthodox Christian military academy and his massive Orthodox Christian funeral in Paris? You weren't aware that he referred to his "system" as esoteric Christianity and that he averred that the highest Christian authority in the world was to be found in Ethiopia among the Coptic (Oriental Orthodox) monks? (Syriac, Armenian, Ethiopian Orthodox Churches)

I guess that would be the short answer, they simply don't accept it. They have a problem in that the wisdom of the Bible is attractive, and life changing and true.

I'm quite certain that each not only accepted the wisdom of Christianity, but became lifelong students and practitioners of the same and enjoyed comparatively privileged access (particularly Gurdjieff) to intact, ancient, and undiluted Christian praxis.

The other reason of course is to nurse along our weak essence our inner god since there is no other god, we can only look internal.

lol, it appears that we've simultaneously reached;

a.) the limits of google search
b.) your attention span
c.) depth and breadth of your familiarity with this material

I might rely on what the Spirit taught me about truth rather than the new essence building of my inner god.

Huh?

It also creates dependence and power for my teachers to have to come to those who have proclaimed to acquire level 4 consciousness.

In 30 years I've never met one of these. But given that Google took you straight away to one of Robert Burton's...., nevermind.


Relax dood, ain't nobody try'na evangelize you, matter fact, none of this is even for you, though you're more than welcome to react to it however you see fit.

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ken said...

"You weren't aware of Gurdjieff's education in an Orthodox Christian military academy and his massive Orthodox Christian funeral in Paris? You weren't aware that he referred to his "system" as esoteric Christianity and that he averred that the highest Christian authority in the world was to be found in Ethiopia among the Coptic (Oriental Orthodox) monks? (Syriac, Armenian, Ethiopian Orthodox Churches)"

Please point me to where Gurdjieff accepted Christ as the Creator and God and where he believes Jesus the Christ died for his sins and resurrected from the dead and is alive now comforting and teaching those who believe on Him today. I will gladly say I am wrong, if you can show even something as straight forward Christian doctrine that Jesus Christ is the Creator, or if that is impossible, even if you could take another straight forward doctrine, Jesus Christ is the only acceptable sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. Or if that is impossible, how about the straight forward Christian that Jesus Christ will judge all men according to what they have done in this life.

if you find such teaching where Gurdjieff is teaching these essential Christian doctrines I would be happy to admit I am totally wrong and mistaken about Gurdjieff. I do think maybe there is a chance you might find it with him, I tried and I see he did call Christ a divine teacher, that's as start. As for his followers, I suspect there chances of embracing such doctrines are much less.

CNu said...

lol, Ken...,


Do you realize that what you're asking for is perfectly analogous to cargo cultists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult insisting that the western sources of goods and materials profess the truth of cult doctrines?

ken said...

I am getting ready to say I am wrong but I need clarification from you...I by the way when searching did see the same article but did not give it the benefit of the doubt I am wiling to give it now. But if you as a follower of Gurdjieff will say this is what Gurdjieff is getting at I will admit error, here is the phrase you posted in one of your articles:

"For to be a Christian means to have the being of a Christian, that is, to live in accordance with Christ's precepts."

First of all defining Precept: pre·cept [pree-sept] Show IPA noun

1. a commandment or direction given as a rule of action or conduct.
2. an injunction as to moral conduct; maxim.
3.a procedural directive or rule, as for the performance of some technical operation.

So the reason when I read this earlier and didn't give it full blown Christianity is a person could follow what we consider the basic precepts he offered and still not believe any Christian doctrine, which is what is required in Christianity, to live in obedience to Christ and believe what he says about Himself. However we could also call beliefs a precept, to believe Christ created, Christ loved the world, Christ came to save it, Christ died and resurrected, and believe Christ what he said He is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father except through the Christ the Son. The requirement of belief might be considered a precept.

If belief isn't a precept certainly the belief in an action form is: Romans 10: 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

In general, the above would be a Christian precept, something you would expect Christians to accept and admit if asked, and therefore included in Gurdjieff's statement of Christian precepts. At the same time I believe something like this above statement was similar to what I was looking for in my previous request which you said is similar to what cults would do. However when I look at Gurdjieff's phrase:

"Man number one, number two, and number three cannot live in accordance with Christ's precepts because with them everything 'happens.' Today it is one thing and tomorrow it is quite another thing. Today they are ready to give away their last shirt and tomorrow to tear a man to pieces because he refuses to give up his shirt to them. They are swayed by every chance event. They are not masters of themselves and therefore they cannot decide to be Christians and really be Christians.”

I will let you be the judge, the idea of being swayed by every chance event leaves me with the impression that beliefs are the missing precept for this constant swaying, no grounding in Christ and Christian doctrines. And if you agree that Gurdjieff is saying "For to be a Christian means to have the being of a Christian, that is, to live in accordance with Christ's precepts." And being a follower of Gurdjieff interpret Christian precepts to include action and Christian theological doctrines I am ready to admit I am wrong.

CNu said...

This is the one which matters; 3.a procedural directive or rule, as for the performance of some technical operation.I will let you be the judge, the idea of being swayed by every chance
event leaves me with the impression that beliefs are the missing precept
for this constant swaying, no grounding in Christ and Christian
doctrines.It is the absence of Will and Real Being which account for the inconsistent, non-unitary mechanical operation of "I's", or what you have referred to as being "swayed by every chance event".



You needn't admit to anything. Better for you to simply examine the material that will be forthcoming and discern the necessity to your own possible psychological development of performing some technical operations conducive to the development of your own Will and Real Being.


Everything else is after all, merely conversation.....,

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