Friday, October 14, 2011

is occupy wall st. the tea party of the left?


Slate | Time has a blog post pondering whether the two anti-elite, anti-corruption movements could ever unite. “It’s not that far-fetched,” Roya Wolverson writes. “In some ways, the tea party and OWS are like doppelganagers… Both groups are repulsed by their taxpayer dollars funding Wall Street’s bailout. Both are disenchanted by the death of the American dream. And both feel left out of a system that seems less like a democracy than a cavalier plutocracy.” The post links to a Venn diagram by blogger James Sinclair showing where the two movements’ grievances overlap.

Not so fast, tea partiers say. Politico reports that major Tea Party groups are mounting an assault intended to delegitimize the Occupy Wall Street protests. They’re “hunting for evidence of union ties, fringe rhetoric and bad behavior — ranging from news of arrests, to recordings of incendiary speeches, to tales of littering, drug use and debauchery,” Politico writes. “They’re posting what they find online, like a photograph of a demonstrator apparently defecating on a cop car that has circulated widely, and are accusing the mainstream media of ignoring extremist elements.”

The conservative columnist George Will argues in the Washington Post that the two groups aren’t comparable because Occupy Wall Street is much smaller and its tactics more radical. And a campaign director for the Tea Party-aligned group FreedomWorks argues in the Politico article that tea partiers are “cheerful, happy warriors” while the Occupy Wall Street crowds are unhappy and angry. He compares the Tea Party to Martin Luther King Jr. and Occupy Wall Street to Malcolm X and Stokely Carmichael.

One sign that the comparison might be flawed: A new Time poll shows that Occupy Wall Street is twice as popular with Americans as the Tea Party. Fifty-four percent of Americans view the “Occupy” movement favorably, compared to just 27 percent for the Tea Party. Slate’s David Weigel has a brief blog post examining the numbers.

21 comments:

nanakwame said...

He compares the Tea Party to Martin Luther King Jr. and Occupy Wall Street to Malcolm X and Stokely Carmichael. LOL Fool, they always create a wall, the Civil Rights Legislation would of gone no where w/o both ends. Why consciousness is a connection to viewing social life with all its arteries. Maybe he needs a mushroom weekend LOL

umbrarchist said...

Well MLK and MX never suggested that double-entry accounting be mandatory for Black kids.  These people are not suggesting it for everyone either.

But ultimately this is about ECONOMIC POWER GAMES!!!

It is about most people not knowing how to play and being LOSERS!

 Google

toxic economic wargames

it should be at the top.  Sometimes links don't paste for some reason.

brotherbrown said...

Because you incessantly and consistently cite double-entry accounting as the key to economic salvation, please explain why.  Full disclosure, I have two finance degrees and was a strong accounting student, so I know double-entry accounting, but I want to you to expand on your reasonsing.

brotherbrown said...

I cry FOUL on the comparison to the Malcolm-Martin Dichotomy.  In the first place, as pointed out by Nanakwame, we couldn't have broken through with out both sides of the coin.  In addition, J. Edgar Hoover made no such distinction between the two in COINTELPRO.  

The similarities have to do with people feeling frustrated about the current state, discovering they are not alone in their frustration, and desiring to make a public showing of solidarity to express their frustration.  The TEA Party tends to be nostalgic for a by-gone era, while OWS is looking to the future and making a bleak assessement.  However both have the effect of disrupting the status quo of the Duopoly of the Democrat and Republican parties.  The Tea Party has already been able to impact an election cycle, but seems to be more in the fold with the republicans.  OWS is not really organized to launch people into public office, and the union infiltration is certainly the Democrat Party's attempt to corral OWS.

The OWS probably works against the interests of the Democratic party while the Tea party works toward the interests of the Republic party.

umbrarchist said...

I had one accountant tell me he had no objection to mandatory accounting as long as it was done after he retired in 6 years.  Of course all of the accountants younger than him would object.   LOL

Double-entry accounting is 700 years old.  How difficult can it be with today's computers? This pretense that it is difficult is absurd.  But 700 years ago people were not buying automobiles that depreciate to nothing in 12 years.  How long did cars last in the 20s and 30?  I don't know.  But how can 4 years of English Lit in high school be more useful that one year of accounting?  Everybody seems to get that and thinks its NORMAL.

Mention one year of mandatory accounting and it's the end of the world.
.

brotherbrown said...

My question is, why would double-entry accounting be beneficial?

Dale Asberry said...

I came to these realizations without any accounting background at all. Therefore, I would argue that double-entry accounting is not necessary. Also, as you indicate through your lack of understanding of anything beyond recognition of the problem, double-entry accounting is also not sufficient to solve these problems. Finally, as accounting is neither necessary nor sufficient to solve these problems, why do you keep spouting accounting as the silver bullet as it is clearly unnecessary?

Ed Dunn said...

I disagree, double-entry accounting is necessary. I was at a parking meter and didn't know how much to pay. If I had learned double-entry accounting, I would have paid twice as less than I did. 

umbrarchist said...

Consider credit-card debt.  There are articles of college kids committing suicide from over-charging credit cards.  I remember the interest rate problems I got in grade school.  They were always collecting interest  on a savings account.  But credit cards were not common back then.  Of course they weren't common 700 years ago either.

umbrarchist said...

 Nobody has ever explained what is so beneficial about 4 years of English Lit either.  But everybody regards it as normal.  Double-entry accounting would help show how our nitwit economists let this crap get out of hand.

How much interest has been paid on the depreciation of automobiles in the last 50 years?  The objective is to reduce stupid consumerism by showing how stupid it is.  Yeah, put a $2000 laptop on your credit card at 18% interest while it depreciates by $1500 in 3 years.  The economist won't even talk about the total depreciation of automobiles for this or any country.

CNu said...

comedy gold...,

CNu said...

I get pulled deep into the salt mine for a day, and completely miss out on nanakwame prescribing the alkahest and brotherbrown conducting school...,

Rembom said...

BB's excellent question to you, Umbra, remains unanswered.  As the eternal flame for all that double entry accounting goodness, I would expect a cogent and perspicacious answer to trip right off the end of your tongue.  Why would double-entry accounting be beneficial?

nanakwame said...

The teaching of certain rudiments is important ritual in teaching, I agree with that, and debt/credit is such one, as the multiplication still plays a good part. The problem with the adult American and afterwards is: gizmos and toys are worshiped and the  ugly truth of its dying, being re-sold while dying, have persons who will fix temporally, planned obsolescence is sold all the time, even in prostitution. Some rituals are meaningless, it is just us. 

umbrarchist said...

Kids are constantly bombarded with learn to get a good job.  But the purpose of the job is to get money.  But decisions must be made about what to do with the money once it is EARNED.  How many stories do we have of Black people making a lot of money and blowing it?  I find it amazing that so many people even ask me that question.

I have pointed out on numerous occasions that the entire economics profession isn't even doing its accounting correctly.  Oh yeah, they can forget to subtract the depreciation of all of the durable consumers goods on the planet for the last 50 years and that is OK with everybody.  It is like the way AUTHORITY has decided to do things is Always acceptable!  How dare anyone suggest that we are running on fundamental NONSENSE!

CNu said...

um.., Bro. Umbra - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-entry_bookkeeping_system please expound on the specific benefits everyday people might obtain from keeping account of their financial activities like banks and corporations do?

Tom said...

Ok, and I sure don't see why it has to be done in the encrypted language of crebits and drebits.   (Umbra?)   But most USoids badly need training in financial self-defense.  

Dale Asberry said...

Financial self-defense becomes second nature the moment USoids recognize the traps and tricks used to extract from them. As Umbra indicates very pointedly, recognition of depreciation could very well be the best trick to protect oneself against.

Tom said...

I have no issue with that.  People round here ignoring depreciation on their $45,000 trucks is a disease and there is no cure in sight.   TVs used to be $300, now they're $2000 and it's all right down the drain.   

But the goal I understand so far is "teach financial self-defense" not "teach double-entry bookkeeping."  I may be missing a lot ....

umbrarchist said...

The word depreciation is not mentioned in that wiki.  When double-entry accounting was invented people didn't buy cars.  This rapid depreciation did not begin until after World War I.

Double-entry accounting without automatic depreciation calculations is OBSOLETE.  But people have to start incorporating it into their thinking BEFORE BUYING.  So they need to understand the accounting anyway.

Sheilagh said...

I think I get it!  As one wing of "financial self defense", students (all of us, students of life) should learn what double-entry accounting is and WHY IT IS RISKY. (Maybe also: how it has been abused in the past century?)

Maybe?

Otherwise, when is double-entry accounting healthy/useful/ethical?  <-- non-rhetorical query