afurtherrecord | Q. You said before that if we can't get of prison in one lifetime, then
one can't get out at all. What do you mean by prison?
MR. O. Prison is prison. Same principles apply for all prisons. Too late to do anything after you are buried. From another point of view, if one did nothing in one life, double chance that one will do nothing in the next. Principle one can always do tomorrow what one didn't do to-day. Improvement of this principle is to do it day after to-morrow.
Q. To get out of prison—does that mean to escape some of the laws men live under?
MR. O. One law only. And if you say 'Which?', I shall say, 'Formatory, formatory!'
Q. Are there more or less than 48 laws governing our world— organic life?
MR. O. According to the diagram of the Ray of Creation 48 laws govern earth—gravity, things like that. Many, many laws under which earth lives—movement, physical laws, chemical laws. Organic life is governed by 96 laws.
Q. The same as moon?
MR. O. The same number but quite a different manifestation. Organic life is not similar to moon. Moon is a cosmic body, organic life is a film on the surface of the earth. The number of laws only shows the relation of a given unit, but not its being or consistency, so there is no similarity.
Q. Could you give an example of one law?
MR. O. Many of them you know. Take man: he lives under physical laws, biological laws, physiological laws peculiar to man, such as temperature, climate, etc. We know some of these laws, but there are many laws about which we know nothing at all. For instance, there are cosmic laws which don't belong to the three laws of earth itself—they are connected with some bigger sphere and govern certain things which, from our point of view, appear trivial and insignificant. For instance, there is a definite law that each class of living beings can only eat a certain kind of food (from a certain density to a certain density). Man can eat things from such and such a density to such and such a density, from such and such a quality to such and such a quality. And he cannot change this just as he cannot change the air he breathes or the temperature in which he can exist. There are many things like that—they are all laws under which man lives. But there are many things about it we cannot know; many things we don't know about the conditions in which we live.
Q. You said as we progressed we should eliminate some of the laws? You said man lives under 96 laws.
MR. O. I said organic life is under 96 laws. Man lives under many, many more laws. Some are biological, physical and so on; then, coming to quite simple laws—ignorance, for instance. We do not know ourselves—this is a law. If we begin to know ourselves, we get rid of a law. We cannot learn 'this is one law, this is another law, this is a third law'. For many of them we have no names. All people live under the law of identification. This is a law. Those who begin to remember themselves can get rid of the law of identification. In that way we can know these laws. It is necessary to know, to understand little by little, the nature of laws from which one can become free. Then it is necessary to try to get free from one law, then from another. This is the practical way to study them.
Q. What are we to get rid of?
MR. O. You can get rid of identifying, negative emotions, imagination. .. .
Q. Aren't these habits?
MR. O. Habits are smaller divisions. Laws govern us, control us, direct us. Habits are not laws.
Q. You mean we must be subject to these laws on earth?
MR. O. We cannot fall under them or not fall under them. They don't ask us—we are chained.
Q. But can we get free?
MR. O. We can—on conditions. Ways enter here—the four ways are ways of liberation from unnecessary laws. Without schools one cannot know from which laws one can get free, or find means of getting free from them. The idea is that we are under many mechanical laws. Eventually we can get rid of some of these laws by becoming subject to other laws. There is no other way. To get out of the power of one law, you must put yourself under another law. This is the general idea. You can be shown the way—but you must work yourselves.
Q. Any personal attainment is the result of effort against fate?
MR. O. Fate may be favourable or not. It is necessary to know what one's fate is. But it cannot liberate us. Ways enter here. The four ways are ways to liberate us from laws. But each way has its own characteristics. In the three traditional ways the first step is the most difficult. In the Fourth Way man remains in the same conditions, and he must change in these conditions. These conditions are the best for him, because they are the most difficult.
MR. O. Prison is prison. Same principles apply for all prisons. Too late to do anything after you are buried. From another point of view, if one did nothing in one life, double chance that one will do nothing in the next. Principle one can always do tomorrow what one didn't do to-day. Improvement of this principle is to do it day after to-morrow.
Q. To get out of prison—does that mean to escape some of the laws men live under?
MR. O. One law only. And if you say 'Which?', I shall say, 'Formatory, formatory!'
Q. Are there more or less than 48 laws governing our world— organic life?
MR. O. According to the diagram of the Ray of Creation 48 laws govern earth—gravity, things like that. Many, many laws under which earth lives—movement, physical laws, chemical laws. Organic life is governed by 96 laws.
Q. The same as moon?
MR. O. The same number but quite a different manifestation. Organic life is not similar to moon. Moon is a cosmic body, organic life is a film on the surface of the earth. The number of laws only shows the relation of a given unit, but not its being or consistency, so there is no similarity.
Q. Could you give an example of one law?
MR. O. Many of them you know. Take man: he lives under physical laws, biological laws, physiological laws peculiar to man, such as temperature, climate, etc. We know some of these laws, but there are many laws about which we know nothing at all. For instance, there are cosmic laws which don't belong to the three laws of earth itself—they are connected with some bigger sphere and govern certain things which, from our point of view, appear trivial and insignificant. For instance, there is a definite law that each class of living beings can only eat a certain kind of food (from a certain density to a certain density). Man can eat things from such and such a density to such and such a density, from such and such a quality to such and such a quality. And he cannot change this just as he cannot change the air he breathes or the temperature in which he can exist. There are many things like that—they are all laws under which man lives. But there are many things about it we cannot know; many things we don't know about the conditions in which we live.
Q. You said as we progressed we should eliminate some of the laws? You said man lives under 96 laws.
MR. O. I said organic life is under 96 laws. Man lives under many, many more laws. Some are biological, physical and so on; then, coming to quite simple laws—ignorance, for instance. We do not know ourselves—this is a law. If we begin to know ourselves, we get rid of a law. We cannot learn 'this is one law, this is another law, this is a third law'. For many of them we have no names. All people live under the law of identification. This is a law. Those who begin to remember themselves can get rid of the law of identification. In that way we can know these laws. It is necessary to know, to understand little by little, the nature of laws from which one can become free. Then it is necessary to try to get free from one law, then from another. This is the practical way to study them.
Q. What are we to get rid of?
MR. O. You can get rid of identifying, negative emotions, imagination. .. .
Q. Aren't these habits?
MR. O. Habits are smaller divisions. Laws govern us, control us, direct us. Habits are not laws.
Q. You mean we must be subject to these laws on earth?
MR. O. We cannot fall under them or not fall under them. They don't ask us—we are chained.
Q. But can we get free?
MR. O. We can—on conditions. Ways enter here—the four ways are ways of liberation from unnecessary laws. Without schools one cannot know from which laws one can get free, or find means of getting free from them. The idea is that we are under many mechanical laws. Eventually we can get rid of some of these laws by becoming subject to other laws. There is no other way. To get out of the power of one law, you must put yourself under another law. This is the general idea. You can be shown the way—but you must work yourselves.
Q. Any personal attainment is the result of effort against fate?
MR. O. Fate may be favourable or not. It is necessary to know what one's fate is. But it cannot liberate us. Ways enter here. The four ways are ways to liberate us from laws. But each way has its own characteristics. In the three traditional ways the first step is the most difficult. In the Fourth Way man remains in the same conditions, and he must change in these conditions. These conditions are the best for him, because they are the most difficult.
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