Sunday, February 20, 2011

particles that flock


Video - Video made to be used in the explanation of experiments being carried out at the CERN LHC

ScientificAmerican | In its first six months of operation, the Large Hadron Collider near Geneva has yet to find the Higgs boson, solve the mystery of dark matter or discover hidden dimensions of spacetime. It has, however, uncovered a tantalizing puzzle, one that scientists will take up again when the collider restarts in February following a holiday break. Last summer physicists noticed that some of the particles created by their proton collisions appeared to be synchronizing their flight paths, like flocks of birds. The findings were so bizarre that “we’ve spent all the time since [then] convincing ourselves that what we were see ing was real,” says Guido Tonelli, a spokesperson for CMS, one of two general-purpose experiments at the LHC.

The effect is subtle. When proton collisions result in the release of more than 110 new particles, the scientists found, the emerging particles seem to fly in the same direction. The high-energy collisions of protons in the LHC may be uncovering “a new deep internal structure of the initial protons,” says Frank Wilczek of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, winner of a Nobel Prize for his explanation of the action of gluons. Or the particles may have more interconnections than scientists had realized. “At these higher energies [of the LHC], one is taking a snapshot of the proton with higher spatial and time resolution than ever before,” Wilczek says.

When seen with such high resolution, protons, according to a theory developed by Wilczek and his colleagues, consist of a dense medium of gluons—massless particles that act inside the protons and neutrons, controlling the behavior of quarks, the constituents of all protons and neutrons. “It is not implausible,” Wilczek says, “that the gluons in that medium interact and are correlated with one another, and these interactions are passed on to the new particles.”

If confirmed by other LHC physicists, the phenomenon would be a fascinating new finding about one of the most common particles in our universe and one scientists thought they understood well. Full-monty at arXiv.

46 comments:

Alowey said...

Coiuld gluons have a helical structure, like an Archimedes screw, which causes attraction at sub-atomic scales which causes this effect?

Alowey said...

Thanks for having me and I'm honoured to be the first to comment on such an excellent site. Actually, I think all structures are of the helical form. The smallest mechanical helix being the graviton and next size up being the gluon i.e. a helix of gravitons in a fractal configuration. I've scanned a few pages of my notes from last night which have a diagram or two to help hopefully, see here http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=201531&st=0#entry3803705. A mental image of helical structures being radiated as a force carrying particle but with 'open ends' radiating smaller gravitons is what I think is going on. The gluons therefore have a short lived potential as a force carrying entity. They totally evaporate into gravitons within a relatively short time. This gives the nucleus it's diameter after which the gluon effect disappears. Do you begin to see what I mean?

Amlowey said...

Hi and thank you for having me. I feel honoured to be the first to comment on such an excellent site. Actually I think all structures of the helical form, but are made of increasing fractal size, i.e. helices of helices. The smallest scale for force carrying particles is the graviton and the next up is the gluon, i.e. a helix of gravitons. This radiated gluon is short-lived because it is 'open-ended' and therefore radiating the smaller gravitons from the ends of it's spiral structure. This gives the nucleus it's size, after this diameter the gluon evaporates totally and loses it's helical form.

Amlowey said...

I've scanned a few pages of my notes from last night which have a diagram or two which may help. See here http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=201531&st=0&p=3803705&fromsearch=1&#entry3803705

Amlowey said...

There's more information from an essay competition I've just entered, see here http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/868

Amlowey said...

Personally, I don't see a need for the Higgs boson, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12597960. It all needs re-assessing imo

CNu said...

I read the essay Alan, and I'm curious to know whether Viktor Schauberger was an influence behind your Archimedean Screw concept? http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/Viktor%20Schauberger.htm

CNu said...

Alan, is your model sufficiently chronotopological?

Amlowey said...

No, I got the idea whilst working as a groundsman at a riding stables around 10 years ago . It was the physical interaction with the screwdriver and screws which did it. In fact, my fascination was alerted when Brian, my engineering mentor, explained to me about left and right handed screws. Thanks for the link, it's a fascinating story with many lessons to be learnt. I'm sure that this new way of thinking is the road to technological advances which were once science fiction.

Amlowey said...

The link was overly technical for my liking, but yes, my model does have a time structure. When I read the word "spacetime" in the link my attention diminshed somewhat. There is no spacetime if one considers the simple helical graviton from the time of Newton. This is an important philosophical point. Objects -don't- attract one another equally in all directions. A graviton has a direction and should be modelled as a vector quantity.

Amlowey said...

I'm very pleased you're looking into it in detail, CNu. You won't regret it, I'm sure. It's all very abstract and pictorial but with some concrete circumstancial evidence to back it up. Once the penny drops you'll see the world in a whole new light. The explanation for the ice ages is particularly good and the solution offered solves the many problems of Milankovitch cycles. I've studied simulation modelling at masters degree level and have a degree in astronomy with computing but other than that, my technical knowledge is very basic. I purposely steered away from the complex mathematical formulae, simply because I didn't believe them to be true. I naturally needed a mental dynamical picture of reality before I would commit myself to anything. All the best and bye for now.

Amlowey said...

I have just thought of a mental image to describe the proton i.e. hydrogen nuclei. The three quarks, which are in ring donut helical configurations are linked in a chain. The centre quark is neutral, with opposite travelling ring helices within it's donut. The outer two quarks are the same config, with the same directional spinning helices. This gives an overall torque on the three linked quarks, which accelerates the entity into an overall spin. It's a analogous to a catherine wheel spinning, with the centre quark acting as a pivot and the two outer quarks providing the synchronised thrust. http://www.nlfireworks.com/images/catherine_wheel.jpg

Amlowey said...

Some scans of my drawings can be seen here, see post #3; http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=201531&st=0&gopid=3806416&

Amlowey said...

That's another very interesting link CNu, thanks. "Alchemy is very much alive today", yes, something I hadn't really thought about before. The quote you give does seem before it's day and a perfect insight into the reality we are now more familair with.

CNu said...

I'm just very curious about what predisposed you toward your expansive visual speculations?

Uglyblackjohn said...

Wouldn't Stephen Hawking's 'Ball Bearing Experimant' be a more easily seen example of this flocking ?

CNu said...

Three and half years ago, I posted A. Garrett Lisi's geometric model of everything - which I'll trot out again now as a reminder of approaches such as the one Alan is proffering.

http://subrealism.blogspot.com/2007/11/geometry-is-all.html

Amlowey said...

It's just the way I am I think! I had an older brother who studied astrophysics and his enthusiam probably rubbed off on me. As to the visualisation and speculation, that must be just due to genetics at a guess. I was never very good at english literature and have always had a predisposition for pondering, so I would often 'switch off' and just observe nature around me and want to understand it and how it all worked. I knew from an early age that the standard explanation for physics was overly convoluted and I was sure I could simplify it into layman's terms.

Amlowey said...

His model would also require the hydrogen atoms to be extraordinarily close to begin with though, otherwise the force of gravity would be too small to influence the the hydrogen atom next to it. I'm almost convinced that an 'extra-strong-gravitational-seed' is required to trigger an accumulation of hydrogen atoms into a star configuration. There's even evidence of a 360 mile wide innermost core of the Earth, which I personally believe is something other than standard matter http://www.spacedaily.com/news/earth-02z.html http://www.spacedaily.com/news/earth-02z.html

Amlowey said...

This has implications for the Cavendish experiment which 'weighed' the Earth by assuming that it had a central core made of the same matter as we find on the crust. This isn't necessarily so, and a seed of non-standard matter would imply an underestimate of the Earth's true 'mass' and therefore an underestimate of the sun's true 'mass'. The 'missing mass' of the universe may be much closer than we realised!

CNu said...

So Alan,

I've examined your concept in much greater detail, and the penny hasn't dropped.

The helix is a special type of regular spiral, resulting from sets of fixed geometric proportions. If I understand you correctly, you believe you've addressed yourself to the abstracted "form" absent any consideration of periodicity at various scales and of various phenomenal (non-abstracted) structures.

quoth Bertrand Russell in The Analysis of Matter; "What we perceive as various qualities of matter, are actually differences in periodicity".

Can you summarize your model to me as a form of periodic or aperiodic tiling? Thanks.

Amlowey said...

Let's go back a step and start with something very simple. Here's a thought experiment for you to consider:

I'd just like to re-iterate my point about a spinning helix which travels around a hypersphere being analogous to an electric circuit. Imagine you are on the inside of a battery which is connected to a simple loop of wire which makes an electric circuit. Imagine a handle rotates clockwise from the positive terminal as seen from your internal perspective. Now trace this turning handle as it travels along the wire and arrives at the negative terminal of the battery. Which way is the handle now turning from the viewpoint of the battery's interior? Is it clockwise or is it anti-clockwise?

The thought experiment illustrates the important relationship between chirality, loops and mirror images. Incidentally, I learnt from a repeat of QI on TV last night about oranges and lemons. The aroma of a lemon is the exact mirror image of an orange and vice versa. Our olfactory sense, the first one to develop via evolution I believe, is ultra sensitive to right and left handedness of airborne molecules, which I find quite interesting. How's the mental imagery of helices in loops getting along CNu? Has a change of chirality occurred??

CNu said...

Optical isomers of LSD might've been a more persuasive analogy Alan (^;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD

Uglyblackjohn said...

Yeah... and no one left a comment.
Baby steps...
If one can grasp Hawking first he may then be able to follow Alan's thinking.
Similar to the way your boy presented a Rubik's Cube model of different dimentions - it got me thinking in differnet ways.

CNu said...

Actually Uncle John, there were quite a few comments on that one, but I lost all my comments mapped to threads at the end of December when I replaced JS-Kit Echo with this Disqus commenting system and the Echo export turned out to be incompatible with either Blogger's commenting or Disqus commenting.

Hawking's ball bearing simulation (not experiment) is erroneous and leads to erroneous speculations for fairly obvious reasons. http://www.ridgenet.net/~do_while/sage/v14i8n.htm - so - those aren't baby steps, those are steps off a cliff - and interestingly babies know better than to take that step.

Alan's helix simulation is also erroneous - but for different reasons. I've tried to gently point him to one resource in particular (Bearden's 4th law) - allowing for a graceful "ah ha!" and additional related food for thought, but I don't think he grokked the simple application of Bearden in particular or looked beyond that to Bearden in general - for the purpose of taking additional baby steps with his own model.

Amlowey said...

You're obviously a very intelligent man with a detailed knowledge of the latest steps in science CNu, no-one is denying that. I'm still concerned that you're not thinking abstractly enough though for my liking (!). You haven't grasped the significance of the graviton, a force of attraction via an Archimedes screw structure, which is emitted from object A, see diagram linked, which then travels around a wraparound universe. The force of attraction is now in the opposite direction from object A, it's approaching, which means that it's force of attraction is now AWAY from object A, a force of repulsion, i.e. dark energy!! CNu: I've attached some simple sketches for you to look at. There're posted on my essay site here http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/868. Best wishes, Alan

Amlowey said...

I've just had a bit of a revelation. The 'extra-strong-gravitational-seed' I speak of is due to the asymmetric configuration of protons and neutrons. Their arrangement amplifies or exaggerates the implicit asymmetry of the Archimedes screw structural config of the graviton. It's the rotational effect of the solar and planetary formation which arranges the p & n into a more orderly configuration. Speed of rotation around an orbital plane gives an amplification effect, especially if the structures become a fluid. The net result is an increase in gravitational field asymmetry. In fact, one can even imagine that the Earth's gravity field is made of two effects (i) graviton field (ii) gluon field. The gluon field has increased irregularities caused by the high speed rotation at the centre of the planet, creating a fluid effect. This gives credibility to the proposed increase in tides with increasing inclination, the up and down motion of the Earth during it's 100,000 yr orbit, which in turn gives rise to increased ocean currents which influence the onset of glaciation. (It's a lot simpler than it sounds)

Amlowey said...

My reply above negates this argument to some degree. I still need to think about it more and perhaps there still is an issue.

Amlowey said...

I've just clicked a bit..All the forces can be explained by the Archimedes screw representing the structural analogue graviton. All forces greater than the 'gravity force' are due to local irregularities of structure which exaggerate the asymmetry of the graviton-like structure itself. A graviton should be modelled as vector quantity. All the forces can be explained by the relative flux density of gravitons.

CNu said...

My problem begins and ends with your uniform application of the "rubber-sheet" at all cosmic scales. I have no data from the LHC flocking configuration - frankly no data whatsoever - supportive of your contention(s) concerning the fundamental screw.

Uglyblackjohn said...

Oh... I thought it was one of the topics which leaves people behind.
(Which is not uncommon on this site.)
(Simulation/experiment? I forget that you're a math man and that everything has an exact value. But as for me - I'm pretty lazy with language.)
I'm not really a fan of Hawking but his way of thinking seems to be the favored language on such matters.
As far as Alan - Dude, you're both way beyond my grasp of the topic but this adds EVEN MORE homework to my ever growing list.

Uglyblackjohn said...

Why do ideas seem to flock?
Why do things like; earthquakes, plane crashes, fads in pop culture or even revolutions seem to cluster?

CNu said...

Do they really?

If and when so, because there's an underlying fluid medium through which structure, pattern, force and periodicity can be transmitted and replicated.

But consider the levels of energy and the leaps that separate them.

Is there as much potential kinetic energy in a mass as their is chemical energy as their is weak and then strong nuclear energy? Are there smooth steady transistions from one level to the next, or, are there major discontinuities?

Amlowey said...

No, no CNu, I'mnot the one still thinking about rubber sheets. I'm talking about helical screws in empty space. Btw the Archimedes screw idea can also explain the galaxy rotation curve mystery http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hep.shef.ac.uk/research/dm/images/rotationCurve.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hep.shef.ac.uk/research/dm/intro.php&h=673&w=888&sz=74&tbnid=xuO1MmU_3h3J8M:&tbnh=111&tbnw=146&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgalaxy%2Brotation%2Bcurve&zoom=1&q=galaxy+rotation+curve&hl=en&usg=__myDSqH-kRuSXnx-owJNOR6Ms84w=&sa=X&ei=Gn53TfmTD8-48gODuc2gDA&ved=0CCMQ9QEwAg

Amlowey said...

For more information see my scanned notes in the essay discussion here http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/868

CNu said...

OK, the above finally clarified the visual for me and I can now "see" what you're on about.

I'm going to have to think about it for a little while more now that the penny has finally dropped.

Thanks for hanging in there.

nanakwame said...

Thank you Amolwey for the insight - Folks like you are going to come forward to elucidate for us, who can’t on this important topic and have some inkling of its importance. I know that consciousness will be understood more by our discussions on these findings. If intelligent folks relied on empires rise and falls, where will we be today? Thanks again – serendipity is such a charm. I was told once that this stuff wasn’t important now LOL.

Imagination... its limits are only those of the mind itself.
Rod Serling

Imagination is more important than knowledge
Albert Einstein - US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

CNu said...

Before you start celebrating a novel TOE Nana, the resident nuclear physicists in the old-nerd collective think Alan's off his gourd and offered a fairly direct and to the point deconstruction of what he's proposed.

I don't have any dogs in the hunt one way or another, so I can entertain the concept and frankly it took several rereads to properly understand what he's asking us to imagine - but what I know for certain is that the scope and depth of the old-nerd knowledge and skill in this area is extraordinary and they routinely look at and discuss such matters for fun and diversion.

It would be helpful if you didn't simply and uncritically cheerlead every single new-age endeavor you see simply because there's an underlying element (and most often unwarranted) element of naive optimism involved with it.

Amlowey said...

No problem CNu, you've been very patient yourself. It will only take some pondering and the whole lot will start to fit like a glove. Bye for now, Alan

Amlowey said...

Your comment is much appreciated nanakwame. You're dead right. It only takes some logic and imagination to understand the picture I'm painting. A layman or bartender could grasp the essence of what I'm talking about quite easily. Don't let the so called 'experts' put you off. Newton missed a trick imo, he should have considered the Archimedes screw as the model for gravity all those years ago. All of history would have been totally different. Nevermind, better late than never!

Amlowey said...

The helical screw model gives matter a new fundamental shape and dynamics which the standard model lacks imo. This non-spherical emission of gravitons is in stark contrast to the Newtonian/Einsteinian acceptance that "all things exert a gravitatinal field equally in all directions". This asymmetry of the gravitational field allows for the stars to experience a greater pull towards the galactic plane, due to their rotation giving more order to the inner fluid matter of the stellar core. Both the structure of the emitter and the absorber of the gravity particles is important. It also has implications for hidden matter at the centre of the galaxies..

I've given the idea some more thought and come to the conclusion that the stars furthest from the galactic centre must have a more 'bipolar nature' than the matter of stars of the inner halo presumably. This is the reason they have wandered towards the galactic plane whilst the halo stars have not. The outer stars' configuration means they experience a greater interaction with the flux pattern of the graviton field. Are the stars of the outer arms simply spinning faster?? We are on the outer edge of a spiral arm and so this would fit with this hypothesis. Our sun could have spin which is higher that that of the average halo star. This relationship between spin and distance from the galactic centre is a fundamental feature which ties in with the suggested mechanism of their creation.

Amlowey said...

Going back to the initial question of how to explain the latest LHC results, my attention was attracted to the 45 degree angle of the nucleus-nucleus collision pattern compared to the 90 degree angle of the proton-proton collision pattern. I can't help but think that this might have a direct relationship to the 45 degree angle mentioned in the work of the Harvard professors on the Earth's innermost core:

"It's a very robust effect," they insist. In the innermost inner core waves travel most slowly at a 45 degree angle to Earth's axis, as opposed to an east-west direction in the rest of the inner core."

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/earth-02z.html

Amlowey said...

The rest of the quote is very relevant to the helical model of matter and it's proposed creation:

"Dziewonski speculates that this innermost iron ball may be a leftover from the original kernel out of which Earth separated into crust, mantle, and core some 4.6 billion years ago. Through subsequent years of meteoric bombardments and geological upheavals, including the ripping off of a big chunk to make the moon, the innermost core survived. If so, it is the oldest unaltered part of our planet.

However, other possibilities exist, albeit not as exciting.

Most earth scientists believe the inner core is growing at the expense of the outer core. The solid iron sphere sits in the path of jets and currents roiling the outer core fluids like a big rock in a flowing stream. These patterns of flow might have been altered after the inner core reached a diameter of 360 miles. Afterwards, iron crystals deposited on the inner core surface in a different orientation, creating a different kind of anisotropy.

A third possibility is that at the higher pressure and temperature near the planet's center, iron crystals pack differently. The change in packing pattern could alter the directions of fast and slow speeds traveled by earthquake waves."

I currently pondering on the possibility of a neutron innermost core..that would have a different packing arrangement of which they speak of.

Amlowey said...

It's worth quoting more of the article I think:

"Dziewonski speculates that this innermost iron ball may be a leftover from the original kernel out of which Earth separated into crust, mantle, and core some 4.6 billion years ago. Through subsequent years of meteoric bombardments and geological upheavals, including the ripping off of a big chunk to make the moon, the innermost core survived. If so, it is the oldest unaltered part of our planet.

However, other possibilities exist, albeit not as exciting.

Most earth scientists believe the inner core is growing at the expense of the outer core. The solid iron sphere sits in the path of jets and currents roiling the outer core fluids like a big rock in a flowing stream. These patterns of flow might have been altered after the inner core reached a diameter of 360 miles. Afterwards, iron crystals deposited on the inner core surface in a different orientation, creating a different kind of anisotropy.

A third possibility is that at the higher pressure and temperature near the planet's center, iron crystals pack differently. The change in packing pattern could alter the directions of fast and slow speeds traveled by earthquake waves."

I've emailed Prof Ishii asking her wehther she thinks the 45 degree angle of the n-n collision pattern of the LHC has a connection with their findings of a 45 degree angle w.r.t earthquake patterns within the innermost core. I can't help but think that this hints at a neutron innermost core for the Earth and stars.

nanakwame said...

One of reason I come here is to learn, the language and the extent of the mystery. Your statement is quite conservative in context and I am not talking politics. I am true skeptic, though to fight the mundane I search for the new ways of looking at something, this is what makes human unique imho. I don’t have a dog either, and I leave this:

"Every time neuroscience comes up with an answer, it's attached to 10 new questions, and nine of them are better than the original," Sapolsky said.
That idea of science being meant to encourage a sense of mystery rather than cure seemed to infect the audience of scientists and laypeople when it came time for questions. One person pointed out that one of the few differences between humans and chimps comes from the amount of cell division for brain cells, and wondered about someday getting chimp genes to "crank out a few more orders of complexity" and boost chimp intelligence.
That's an open possibility, Sapolsky agreed.
The questioner then asked about applying the same procedure to humans and cranking up our intelligence. Sapolsky didn't miss a beat.
"I think it would transform reality TV as we know it," Sapolsky said

Amlowey said...

lol

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