theintercept | MH: Let’s talk impeachment. The Democrats have launched an
impeachment inquiry into President Trump specifically around this
suggestion that he was pressuring a foreign country Ukraine to dig up
dirt on his political opponent and even withholding military aid until
they agreed to do so. Do you support the House Democrats’ decision to
finally start an impeachment inquiry into Donald Trump?
NC: First notice something, they’re going after Trump not on
his major crimes but because he went after a leading Democrat. Does that
remind you of anything? Yes. Watergate. They didn’t go after Nixon on
his major crimes. They were off the record. It was because he had
attacked the Democratic party.
MH: Good point.
NC: So yes, they’ll protect themselves. Is it the right thing
to do? I mean, Trump is impeachable 100 times over. You know, he’s a
major crook. There’s no doubt about it. Is it politically wise? I
frankly doubt it. I think it’ll turn out pretty much like the Mueller
report, which, that I thought was also a political mistake. What’ll
happen is probably the House will impeach, goes to the Senate. The
Republican senators are utterly craven. They’re terrified of Trump’s
voting base. So they’ll vote to turn down the impeachment request. Trump
will come along, say I’m vindicated. Say it was the Deep State and the
treacherous Dems trying to overturn the election. Oh, vote for me.
MH: I had the filmmaker Michael Moore on the show last week,
and he thinks that eventually this evidence is going to pile up against
Trump that’s so damning — and we’ve already seen some of the testimony
from the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and others — that actually he
thinks Republican senators, some of them who you know, who need to save
their skins will join Senate Democrats to vote to remove Trump from
office. You don’t seem to buy that?
NC: I think you may find a handful who will find a way to
evade taking a position But if you just look at the record of the party —
I gave you a couple of examples, but we could go on — it’s very hard to
imagine any bit of principle emerging. It’s true that if some of them
thought they were really going to suffer for it politically or in other
ways, maybe they’d change, but that doesn’t seem too likely. I mean,
just take a look at Trump’s voting base, you know, there are pretty
regular polls and studies. They haven’t changed. They buy his line.
Here’s our hero. The one man in the world who’s willing to stand up for
us.
MH: Although whether it works or not in the Senate, it doesn’t
mean the House Democrats shouldn’t take a stand regardless of whether
Republican Senators convict. Can Trump be beaten at the ballot box next
November? Is there a Democratic candidate who you think can beat him or
more than one candidate?
NC: Well, here it’s very interesting to see what’s being done.
You may have seen a day or two ago in the New York Times was a big
article about a meeting of the Democratic centrists, the establishment,
the billionaires, the donors, you know, the mainstream political
figures. And it was about, their concern about just what you asked, is
there a Democrat who can defeat Trump? And they went through the
possible Democratic candidates and discussed their flaws, and then
asked, can we bring in someone else like Bloomberg or Michelle Obama?
Take a look at the leading candidates they listed: Warren, Biden and
Mayor Pete. Do you notice somebody missing?
MH: Senator Sanders doesn’t make the cut of these lists.
NC: There’s a very good reason for it. He has absolutely
infuriated the liberal establishment by committing a major crime. It’s
not his policies. His crime was to organize an ongoing political
movement that doesn’t just show up at the polls every four years and
push a button, but keeps working. That’s no good. The rabble is supposed
to stay home. Their job is to watch not to participate.
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